Personal Bible study, prayer and community? Huh…

Aug 27, 2010

Personal Bible study, prayer and community? Huh…

Posted by Evan Whitman in Community | Comments (50)

Recently I had an awesome and inspiring conversation with a fellow brother who, as of late, hasn’t been attending Sunday morning gatherings or engaging in community whatsoever. I asked him how things were going, and he informed me that times have been tough. His family is experiencing serious health problems; there are tensions in his marriage and self confessed “my spiritual life is in the toilet”. I asked him, what are you doing about it? After minutes of conversation he told me that he hadn’t been reading or praying much lately and told me he knows he needs to start getting back into the “swing” of things and devote himself to daily reading and prayer.

I offered my opinion, I asked him of Bible study, prayer and community which of these do you value the most? Or in other words, if one was more important than the other, which one would it be? He didn’t offer his opinion. I gave him a little background on where I was coming from as of late and told him that I valued the community aspect of these three the most. One reason I value the community element the most is because it is the all “encompassing” of the three, Bible study/dialect, prayer and Gospel centered community all in one. There are other reasons I believe that community sort of “trump’s” personal Bible study and personal prayer life, and I will lay them out here. This is by no means saying that I am diminishing the power of prayer and study.

God was already in perfect community with Himself. (I.e. Father, Son, Holy Spirit) long before we were created. (Ref. Gen 1:26).Being a Triune God, it shows that He values community. He was in perfect community amongst Himself.
Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity, also called “Emanuel” (which translated means God with us) condescended to our level, forsook everything in Heaven, became poor and a humble servant to the DEATH and surrounded Himself with a community of people, disciples, apostles and non-believers. Jesus was in constant community with people. This shows the value that God has on community and relationships with both believer and non-believer.
When there is constant community there is constant accountability. I.e. if you go missing for a few days someone is going to start asking questions and hopefully start calling to see how you are doing, what’s going on in your life and if there is anything you need or something we can pray for as a unified body of believers (community). There is nothing worse that being stuck in a rut with no one to help. The structure of community is designed for just this; help each other when in need. Community should be a safe place of people which you can confide in people with anything and not feel judged. We all struggle and you by NO means should have to feel judged by what you are going through, no matter what it is. I’m serious, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS! Community is a safe place, come as you are!
When left to “personal Bible study” we often just read for the sake of reading, as if we completed our “religious duties” for the day, and out of our religiosity sometimes comes pride or empty-hearted duty which amounted to nothing more than just a bunch or words bouncing off the insides of our craniums. What I am trying to say here is when we read the Bible on our own, left to our own ideas sometimes the Bible is taken out of context and we are imprinted with an unbiblical and unhealthy interpretation of the Word. Point being, 10 heads are better that 1, and if for some reason you are practicing or believe something no other competent or sound-minded Christian of the past 1977 years hasn’t been practicing or believing, chances are you may want to evaluate where you stand in light of Biblical Christianity. In a body (plural) of believers, the chance the truth will come out is increased exponentially. Take Revelation 3:20 for instance, I can’t tell you how many times I have quoted that verse out of context!
While a personal prayer life and personal Bible study are important, nothing can replicate the value of Community prayer, study and serving. Please allow me to elaborate: As a struggling Christian, I strive to maintain my head above water, and by that I mean this: If I only devote 2 hours a week to prayer and study and feel inadequate, will 10 more hours of prayer and study make me feel better? Or worse, JUSTIFIED? NONSENSE! Our own studies and prayer can easily become works! Works are by no means necessary for Salvation. This is utter Heresy! Rest easy my friends, by no works are we justified and by no works do we need to be worried, it is only by grace through faith alone that we are redeemed by the blood of Christ. In the past couple of months I have actually found it easier to pray in community. I find my mind and inhibitions are more at ease, and things are just, well, easier!
There are so many “views or interpretations” that can pull us this way or that way, but if your attitude is “it’s just me, my Bible, prayer closet, and Jesus” you may want to check yourself. You may even want to see a psychologist. Even they will tell you that isolation is bad for mental health and leads to all sorts of bad “situations”. Take it from me, I’ve been there! :)

I am not saying that you should stray away from personal Bible study and prayer life. I am not saying this at all! What I am saying is that you should be checking your beliefs and understandings of what the text says in comparison with what pastors, elders and sound competent Christians are saying. We need to lower our pride, suck it up and just embrace that we all don’t have it all together, and just face the fact that there might be someone smarter out there than me, and maybe I can learn something from them.

So I leave you with the question, personal bible study, prayer and community? Huh…

Posted by Evan Whitman in Community

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Evan Whitman

08/27 at 04:29 AM

Hey Evan…why you talking about our personal conversations…lol..just kiddng brother.

The thing that has become clear to me is that in community, there is certainly the potential of Bible reading, prayer and even worship together but on the flip side if you are reading the Bible by yourself, praying by yourself and worshiping by yourself, you are lacking community and there’s no potential for community if it’s just you! It’s actually a really simple concept :) but sometimes..well most of time…not so easy for me to follow.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 05:10 AM

Absolutely Billy. Community is one of the most difficult aspects of the christian life. Most of us naturally feel like sometimes it’s easier on our own. God created man as a social being, one who in one way or another is hardwired for relationship.

Now to be clear, as individuals we should be reading, praying, and leading lives of worship (not just singing by ourselves) towards God. However the gospel is best lived out in the context of community. I always encourage my christian friends who aren’t part of a church to really get out there on the hunt because it’s sooo important to be plugged in. When we aren’t, eventually we’ll feel like our “...spiritual life is in the toilet” and start to find comfort in other things.

Great article Evan, I personally have seen tremendous growth in you in this area and am glad to have you as a friend. Billy, have we met before? Your name sounds really familiar.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 05:19 AM

For me, I think part of the problem why I keep falling into this rut of reading, praying, worshiping, etc. by myself is because I’ve never made the decision to call a specific church my home. And, the reason that I haven’t made that decision is because I have felt so torn in the recent years about what is the “best church” to meet with…who’s doing it right. I’m not someone who is easily persuaded and I am someone who cares a great deal about what God thinks, what God wants. I know my actions don’t always reflect that, but I really do care. I think part of the problem or should I say part of the problem with me is that I have seen so many different types of churches….and when I say different, I mean really different. I tend to find myself lost not knowing where I should actually go because I’m trying to find the perfect church. I think….“this church does this and I really don’t agree with that” or “this other church does that”. With that said, there are things about these churches that I really love. I don’t think I’ve ever been so undecided about something in my whole life. The problem is, it’s like looking for the perfect food or drink and not having anything until you find it. You begin to starve and you will become spiritually sick.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 05:23 AM

Jean, we met awhile back at Joe’s house. I met with you guys for awhile at Joe and Mitch’s.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 06:21 AM

Nice, I knew the name rang a bell.

In response to your last comment, I totally understand where you are coming from experiencing several very different churches. When my family and I were looking for a church, we ended up going to three before Sacred Journey. What helped in our decision was identifying aspects that were essential to us (theology,community, etc). We found that while all three churches had excellent doctrine, community was seriously lacking, or conversely was very closed which made it very difficult for outsiders to feel comfortable.

Personally I think it should be encouraged for people visiting churches to feel it out. You should never feel pressured to become a member but should feel welcome and safe to ask questions and share any doubts your might have. This should be a process, I wouldn’t expect anyone to join a church after a few weeks.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 06:29 AM

Wow!!! This is a wonderful blog Evan!! Thank you for your honest contribution Billy. Jean..I love getting to cyber-know you. I’d prefer more face time with everyone but this will have to do for now.

I think anyone who really is alive in Christ and wanting to move forward struggles with the realities and tensions of finding that perfect church ‘fit.’ It’s never going to be found this side of eternity. The fact that we hunger and long for perfection may tell us that there will be a fulfillment of that someday but for now the choices are good but always less than perfect because it’s leaders and members are ALL less than perfect. If Jesus who is perfect decided to give up on the mess of community and live isolation then those who give up and decide to isolate have an argument but He instead gave us pretty clear instructions on HOW to remain and stick with the game plan. Hard instructions **true** but there is one summation he gives: Do to others as you would have them do to you. If you aren’t getting the love you need then the answer is to love more. If someone hurts you or offends you; put yourself in their place and do the hard thing. You have sinned and offended them. What would you want the offended person to do…reject you? Run away from you? Talk about you? No, you would hope they would do the hard thing and make time for you, talk to you, be an instrument of healing and reconciliation. The hard thing… So the onus is always back on us.. Doing the hard thing is hard, difficult and seemingly impossible… But jesus never made excuses for fear or sinful responses…He ALWAYS said..You, do the hard thing. He ultimately did the hardest thing of all so since this is our example, so we are to follow, suck it up and be the peacemaker, the healer. To do this right requires lots of Jesus time and humility and laying down the sinful knee jerk response realizing this is not a cake walk, but it is a a grace walk and no one has it down perfectly..

Thanks so much for this awesome dialogue!! I hope to meet you Billy.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 06:42 AM

Joan, I will be there this Sunday with a black shirt on that says “It’s not about me” on the front :-)

Thank you so much for your input.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 06:46 AM

I will be wearing the shirt that says..“please love and accept me…I’ve had a hard week.” Can’t wait to find you!! :)

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 07:00 AM

Evan, I have to say that I am deeply impressed with the level of repentance and theological reflection in this post. A perfect blend I would say and it shows by the high level of interaction. I am looking forward to more Whitman posts! Todd

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 07:08 AM

Hey Billy,

So great to have you interacting here. I know finding a church can be hard. If we are truly honest with ourselves, most of us will see (I speak from experience) that we are not usually looking for the “perfect church” but rather what we have idealized as a church, but is usually not real. Another way to put it is that we usually look for a church that thinks just like us, but even when we think we find it, eventually we change too. For what it is worth, If we haven’t ever told you, we are a church that wants Billy and his family to be part of our family and we have missed you brother! As to wrestling the question of finding a church, I have written a paper called “Choosing a Church” that is on the SJC web-site which has helped a lot of people think through the issue. You can read it or download it here: (http://sjchurch.org/about-us/position-paper-details/choosing-a-church/)

P-Todd

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 07:11 AM

Looking forward to seeing you again Sunday Billy. I’ll be the guy with no shirt… (I kid, I kid)

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 07:58 AM

I agree that community is important. But can we find a Biblical precedent for making it this important? It’s not rhetorical, I am asking for the sake of the discussion. :)

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 08:22 AM

DTL! What’s up buddy. I would point you to the link to the paper on Choosing a church I posted above to billy. Here I outline the marks of the Church or what I call the Rhythms of discipleship in Acts 2:42. IN this single verse Luke outlines four basic things that the apostolic church “devoted themselves continually” toward, which are namely (1) the apostle’s doctrine (preached word), (2) Life together (community), (3) breaking of bread (Lord’s table/repentance), and (4) prayer. These are essentially the four legs on a stool. As soon as you take one away, it gets wobbly. Take away two, it falls. On top this the entire formation of biblical Christianity (including a solidly Reformed understanding) is through the means of covenant. God meets his people in covenant and that covenant gives rise to the “covenant community.” The covenant people and community is presupposed on every page of the Old and new testament. It is the basis of all the preaching of the prophets.

todd

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 08:33 AM

@David, I can’t offer a really complete exegetical defense of community, primarily because I am not skilled in that, but also because it is a comment on a blog, I will keep my points short:

-Evan’s point about God himself being a community sets a pretty high precedent (especially as he created us in his image, and we were not, as a creation, labeled as “very good” until there was a second person).
-The fact that God reveals himself primarily to and through communities throughout scripture
-The idea that our sanctification is pretty much reliant on the word being applied to us by others in community. (Heb 3:12-13, 10:24-25)
-God has given the world the right to judge our salvation by our visible love for each other (John 13:35)
-God has given us a test of our love for him, primarily by our love for one another (1 John)

Community it is drenched in the entire biblical narrative as a normal part of God’s design for humans (and thus it is a God created need), the way to our sanctification, a primary means of bringing him glory in the world, and a preview of the perfect community to be shared in eternity.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 08:37 AM

Right-O! Joe!

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 09:24 AM

K. Just chekin’ ;)

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 09:36 AM

A quick study of the early church as one will see in Rodney Stark’s “The Rise of Christianity” and “Cities of God” well demonstrates that the spread of Christianity was primarily due to social networks and community. I might also add for clarification that there may be some misunderstanding of Evan as the discussion has progressed. Evan was not giving a choice between bible study and relationships and saying that relationships are more important than learning the bible. Rather He is suggesting the superiority of learning doctrine and doing bible study in a community verses the often over-emphasis on “personal bible study and devotions.” And for what it is worth, The New testament is extremely dogmatic about the Gospel community. See Hebrews 10:25. In the apostolic era, abandoning gathering with the community was a form of serious apostasy.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 09:39 AM

Does anyone have an idea why the time is off when I post something? If I were to post something at 1pm, it will say 12pm. Not too important…just curious. Thanks!

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 09:42 AM

We consider our blog a sort of alternate reality… kinda like the Matrix. We do everything here in bullet time! Yeah!

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 09:48 AM

Todd,

I will definitely check out the paper that you wrote. Thank you!

Have you written any on papers on dealing with 3 year olds yet…lol. :) My son is 3 but wants to be 4 but he’s been going through his terrible 2’s since he’s been 1. Got it? lol We’ll talk Sunday. :)

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 01:50 PM

We’ll all know that I have problems if I let it bother me so much that I change the clock on my computer. lol

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 01:51 PM

Good call on that billy, my server’s timezone was set improperly, it should be all set going forward now.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 01:56 PM

Aaawww! I like bullet time!

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 04:45 PM

Todd,

In response to what you wrote here:

“If we are truly honest with ourselves, most of us will see (I speak from experience) that we are not usually looking for the “perfect church” but rather what we have idealized as a church, but is usually not real.”

I kind of left out some information because I didn’t feel that it was necessary to say it at the time and I didn’t want to cause others to stumble in the way that it has possibly caused me to stumble. I will be vague…there are some Christians that I know that do believe that they do have it right as far as how the church meets and I think this has definitely thrown a monkey wrench in the situation for me.

Evan Whitman

08/27 at 06:31 PM

Billy: I understand. Our attitude has to always be one of humility and grace toward those who may practice differently or have a different understanding. That is a tricky, tricky stuff.. on fire for something that you believe in without coming off as superior or arrogant. You should always feel free to speak into that with us and we should continually remind ourselves of this because there is a very very fine line that we don’t want to cross. A favorite quote I have found is “the best critique of the bad is the practice of the good.” So it means moving out of the ivory tower of academic understanding and dialogue and making sure that we are doing the things we are talking about.

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 08:17 AM

Joan: “That is a tricky, tricky stuff.. on fire for something that you believe in without coming off as superior or arrogant.”

In my case, I’m not on fire for any specific church and that is part of my problem. Undecided…

I’m reading Todd’s paper…maybe that will open my eyes in regard to “choosing a church”. : )

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 10:53 AM

This comment may seem to be off topic but I believe that what I am bringing out is at the heart of genuine Christian community

Hi Joan, I think you have brought up a good topic that deserves its own post. The ‘Lion and the lamb’ ministry (pastoral/prophetic) are always at odds with each other in their understanding of the methodology behind their ordained roles. The Lion thinks the lamb is too soft in the wrong way and the lamb thinks the Lion is too harsh in another… the kicker is that in order for the Body to be in working order both roles have to be in simultaneous working order. This requires humility at both ends not just at the end of the one who sits in an ‘ivory tower of academic understanding’.

For the Lion, the tendency is to be unloving and yet correct (See Christ’s rebuke to the Church at Ephesus in Revelation 2)... and for the lamb the tendency is to be liberally ecumenical, a man-pleaser before a God-pleaser. Both parties meeting int he middle is the definition of Christlike community and requires not a trust of each other but rather a trust in God and His ordained Ecclesiology.

So, yes I agree that our attitude has to always be one of humility and grace toward those who may practice differently, and this is exactly what Christ was displaying in the temple when He turned over the tables or when Paul called out Peter publicly, and this is exactly what Christ was displaying when He allowed the children to come to Him and what Paul displayed when he called the Corinthians to bring back the excommunicated sinner in 2 Corinthians.

I think the issue in this context is how one defines ‘humility and grace’. Those who practice differently, as it regards Christians specifically, could just be plain wrong and need loving correction (then we must define what ‘loving correction looks like) or it may be a ‘nonBiblical’ not ‘unBiblical’ disagreement in methodology/emphasis. The latter is certainly a context where humility and grace in the shape of an ‘agreeing to disagree while moving forward together’ attitude is embraced.

The issue that Billy is having is one of emphasis. We are commanded not to forsake the assembly/community, but we are not told to forsake everything else for the sake of community. Community is a spoke that emerges from the hub of personal relationship with God; Christ. There can be no corporate fellowship that is of worth unless there be private fellowship that is of worth (See the life of Jesus and His patterns of closet prayer). If one prefers to pray with the community and so forsakes his private assembly with God then the emphasis is off-balance and their issues become harder to diagnose because community is such a vital part of the Christian life. Corporate worship is meaningful to us because we first worship privately. So, again my point is about emphasis.

@Billy, I understand where you are coming from. Being in the ministry all my life I have seen endless lines of people burnt out from church. I would encourage you to find a community asap. Sacred Journey is one of the finest. We are called to extend the same grace that God has shown us. This is the definition of Christian community: Countless sinners with different levels of faith coming together and screwing up while realizing the reason for screwing up (sin) and understanding that the answer to our dilemma (or the ‘wrongness’ of the opposing party) is still the same for every communal sinner. This compels us to continue on in love, despite the personality conflicts and misunderstandings. We are rooted in Christ, not our own wisdom/opinions.

So Billy, maybe you were offended by an extreme lamb (people-pleaser) or maybe you were offended by an extreme Lion (self-righteous judgment). I would figure it out sooner than later and while you do, also figure out what John (Christ) means by ‘hate’ in this verse…

1 John 4

“Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. If anyone says, ‘I love God,’ yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.”

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 11:53 AM

Thanks for that David L… Awesome.

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 02:15 PM

I don’t think I understand the point being made here, but let my lay out my personal scenario. I attend the three weekly meetings my church offers (twice Sundays, Wednesday prayer/Bible study meeting.) We have no organized “community groups” to speak of, however, that does not mean that people from my church do not get together on a regular basis. Sometimes this may be people just spending time with each other at someone’s home, other times it might be all of us going out to dinner together.

If I could analyze my own time spent, I’d say I spend far more time in prayer and personal devotions than I do in fellowship, other than what I just mentioned above. Often times, it IS just “me, my Bible, prayer closet, and Jesus.” This has been especially true lately as I have been facing some personal challenges and some chastisement of the Lord. According to the author, I need to “check myself” because this is the case.

While my Christian brethren make up an integral part of my growth and walk with the Lord, I have found that my greatest strength and greatest growth often comes from that intimate, personal prayer time spent with the Lord and in His word. Community makes up an aspect to that but it does not fill the void that I feel when I am not closely connected to the Lord in regular prayer and Bible study.

So color me thoroughly confused by the point being made here. I enjoy being at the church meetings and do not forsake them, and I enjoy being with Christian brethren outside of the organize meetings. I enjoy Bible study. I enjoy prayer. The are all essential parts of my Christian walk.

Is the implication that because I do not place a higher emphasis on community that I am being negligent in my Christian walk?

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 02:54 PM

Hi Peter!

I like what P. Todd had to say above about balancing these things that you mention:

“Acts 2:42. IN this single verse Luke outlines four basic things that the apostolic church “devoted themselves continually” toward, which are namely (1) the apostle’s doctrine (preached word), (2) Life together (community), (3) breaking of bread (Lord’s table/repentance), and (4) prayer. These are essentially the four legs on a stool. As soon as you take one away, it gets wobbly. Take away two, it falls.”

My experience in the evangelical world much emphasis has been put on prayer (heart relationship to God) and study (head knowledge of God) and not so much on community. I think that there is an acknowledgement of this necessity and a head nod but rarely do you find a good understanding of how to go about this in a moving forward, sharing of life, repentant sort of way. The Gospel Centered Life that has been offered @ SJC really provides a nice solid framework of understanding for this but yea, basically all are important.

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 04:25 PM

Joan reiterated the point well. Those of you who are taking issue with Evan’s post (thank you for participating by the way, we appreciate your input) I would encourage you to reread it a little more carefully. He is not saying replace your personal walk with just hanging out with Christians. What he is saying is that community is the basis of all Christian walk.

Early in our Christian lives we are usually given a bunch of “do’s” like “devotions”, “prayer,” “spiritual disciplines” that are touted as the way to a deeper spiritual life. No doubt, they are helpful. But they are meant to be based upon living in a community that is practicing Acts 2:42. The church, theologically speaking is the family of God, and is based upon the human family for its shape. Luther called the family “the first church.” A church is a family of families and individuals who are pursuing a heavenly father together. In the same way a person lacking parental nurture grows up the worse for it, so does the Christian without the community.

One respondent commented how he really grows by his private prayer life over his church experience. I was there once as a young man, and thought I was growing like that too. When I actually got into community, I realized I had not grown much at all. People were designed by God to grow in relationship to people. It is the rub and conflict of relationship that brings out our brokenness and forces us to deal with it. When we are functioning in a more private and solitary Christian life, I allows us to not have conflict, hide our brokenness and sinfulness and think we are doing better when we are just insulating ourselves from opportunity to make ourselves grow.

The same respondent referred to going to the organized meetings of his Church. This actually has nothing to do with community. When I was at A Christian college, I went to a service of some sort 6 times per week, but I was otherwise living a solitary Christian life and those services allowed me to live solitarilly. They did not call me into face-to-face communion and confrontation with other people that demanded a life of repentance and growth in the Gospel. True spiritual growth requires vulnerability before other Christians. At SJC, we have people (Like Evan who wrote this) who have spent years doing the “churchy thing” and yet have remarked that they have grown 10 times more in the last 7-8 months than in 5 to ten previous years of Church. It is nothing special. We are just following the Acts 2:42 model that was also followed by the Reformers and the early church. Many modern Evangelical Churches do services but with arm’s-length relationships, a sort of quasi-Roman Church feel. Sure they have guitars and touchy-feely music, the relationships can still be surface and so people’s spiritual lives are stunted.

I will also say this, that I completely understand the push back gentleman, and will admit that you will likely continue to push back and not understand what we are talking about until you experience this kind of community based Gospel formation. And for what it is worth, listen to some sermons. There is no holding back on biblical and Reformed doctrine here. We are by no means making a choice between community and truth.

Another thing that is important here, that I do not have time to go into, but will note is that some of the confusion rests in an un-biblical (and non-Reformed) theology of the Holy Spirit. Both the New Testament and All the Reformers, especially Calvin teach that the work of the Holy spirit is qualitatively higher in the gathered community than the individual. Both OT and NT wreak with this idea, especially Acts. At Pentecost, the gathered Church becomes the temple and dwelling place of God. This is the Reformed doctrine of the “Real Presence of Christ” in the community and in offering the sacraments. One can refer to almost any standard Reformed Systematic Theology for this (Wayne Grudem is not a Reformed Theology by the way).

David, thanks for what your shared and the kind words. Peter and Billy, you are both more than welcome to come visit. We would love to serve you if you are looking for a place to be theologically trained up, discipled, and prepared for Gospel mission.

In Jesus,

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 09:01 PM

You’re welcome. :)

I understand what Billy is saying, I think the confusion is brought on when a caveat is intended to trump a previously made authoritative statement, the latter being the stronger hand ever time. ;)

Evan Whitman

08/28 at 09:03 PM

Evan, not Billy… sorry.

Evan Whitman

08/29 at 12:24 AM

David L.??? Do I know you?

Evan Whitman

08/29 at 01:28 AM

“So I leave you with the question, personal bible study, prayer and community? Huh…”

Well, I believe I have learned a lot between reading all of these posts (btw, thank you for starting this Evan) and reading Todd’s paper titled “Choosing a Church”.

I’m living proof of why community is so important. I’ve been a Christian now for 8 years and have back slid so many times. I have stopped reading, praying, meeting with the church, etc. several times. I keep trying to sit on a three legged stool. I have known that community is very important for awhile now (with that said, my understanding of community was distorted) but as I said before, choosing a church has been difficult for me. There is one church that I went to regularly for the longest time but when I stopped going, I honestly don’t think anyone noticed….this didn’t exactly help my situation any. I could have really used phone call, email, or something…who was going to call me though??…I hardly knew anyone there. It’s pretty sad when I think about it but the two names of people that I really knew well that quickly come to mind were people that I already knew before I started going there and I’ve been there many times.

The two biggest things that SJC has opened my eyes to are community and “making disciples of all nations”. It’s amazing how many times that I read that verse before but it was never on my list of priorities as a Christian over the past several years. It’s equally amazing or should I say disturbing that every church doesn’t emphasize on this! The thing that SJC has opened my eyes to in regard to community is that community isn’t just faithfully meeting with the church on Sundays for 1 or 2 hours and then reading by your self, praying by yourself and so on during the week.

Evan Whitman

08/29 at 06:45 AM

Thanks Billy. Very well said!

Evan Whitman

08/29 at 07:15 AM

Ya Billy, I’m the dude who introduced you to reformed theology. Pastor Todd knows way more than I do… you should check out SJ. :)

Evan Whitman

08/29 at 11:30 PM

Hey David, I thought it might be you. I’ve been to SJ a few times..it definitely has my interest. Hope all is going well with you.

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 08:44 AM

I know I am a little late to the game here, but just wanted to add one other point. There has been a lot of tension in the comments that seem like placing this importance on community is directly opposed to personal study and prayer, probably due to Evan’s point about if you are only going to do one, do community.

My understanding of it is not of community vs. solitary prayer vs. solitary scripture study. We are encouraged throughout the bible to treasure God’s word and commandments to the point of memorization and mediation, to be reliant on God so much that we are “praying without ceasing”, and to love one another in such a strong and sacrificial way it gets almost communist in acts 2.

Because of our protestant slant on the Bible being the highest authority (which is a doctrine in healthy reaction to a Roman view of a man being the ultimate authority), I think we tend to cringe if it is every suggested that something could be more “important” then the Bible.

But thats not what Evan said at all. And I know thats not what any of us at sjc believe. God speaking to us is of immense value that can’t be measured. The point that Evan nails right on head, and Billy adds to so well is the power of community in the bad times.

Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil.
For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up! Again, if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone? And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken. (Ecclesiastes 4:9-12 ESV)

So what happens when I am “alone” (even if I have many “church meetings”) and I fall? The “fall” can be anything, depression, doubt, addictions, justification by works, whatever.

I’ve been there, many, many times, and I know what happens. If it is doubt, you stop reading and praying because, well, you think it’s all a bunch of crap. If it is some addiction, you might get to the point where you think there isn’t even a problem. You definitely stop reading and praying, because you feel that nagging sense of hypocrisy.

If it is legalism, the problem is everyone else. Then you isolate yourself further, which helps you “sin less”, so you stop feeling guilty. You may begin to think of yourself as God’s little hero. You are the only person you know who understands the bible properly, and is as devoted to him and obeying him. This is the one fall that you continue reading and praying, but the slant is to be judgmental and proud, rather than sacrificial, compassionate, and loving.

There is a reason Jesus’s temptation consisted of being alone.

The issue is not that God’s word is not powerful and effective. This issue is as Bonhoeffer points out: “The Christ in the word of my brother is stronger than the Christ of my heart.”
We treasure community so much here because we understand that our fallen humanity prones us to wander. So we surround ourselves by those who can help us up and those we can help up.

There also is the major point that the main goal of a Christian is not to be more “moral”, but to show more love in a Christ-like way which absolutely requires other people to be around us constantly. You may feel like you are growing patient when you give yourself 20 hours a week of solitude, but your patience actually is getting weaker. It will only be seen when you are around 20 frail men and women who all sin just as much as you.
Is it ironic that all of the historical and modern monastic ideas of keeping ourselves “pure” involve removing ourselves from people that “make us sin”? If a certain person “makes me angry” every time I spend time with them, am I really dealing with my own heart problem if I just stop being around them? How long until I find a new target?

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 09:03 AM

Joe,

Fantastic Comment and excellent counter to the anonymous fellow (1689) who tossed the holy hand grenade into the conversation and disappeared. He pointed out that Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness as an example of the necessity of solitude, but that actually really missed the point. The 40 days were to put Jesus in the weakest state possibly when he came under the temptation. From a biblical theological stand point, in his wilderness experience Jesus as the “last Adam” was enduring his testing that the “first Adam” failed. The first Adam was in the garden with the animals. Jesus was in the wilderness with the wild animals. This event cannot be replicated and was unique to Jesus’ role as Messiah. It was his “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” testing which only he could prevail from. Great comments.

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 09:37 AM

Amen Joe!

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 10:06 AM

Good morning Todd! I have what I believe is a good question for all of you. (eveyone please feel free to respond if you’d like)

How important do you think it is for one Christian community to reach out to another? To be more specific, do you think it is important for SJC to reach out to other churches in Providence or other cities/towns? One of the things that have always bothered me about the churches/Christians is that they are so divided!!! Even the “local churches” that we spoke of yesterday say that they are very focused on the “oneness” of the body of the believers but they seem to want nothing to do with other churches unless they are of course other “local churches”. I totally disagree with this thinking!!! Just to be clear, in regard to my question above, I’m not saying “reaching out” would involve trying to change other people’s beliefs. I’m guessing some churches might accept others reaching out and maybe most wouldn’t…not sure because I don’t have any real life experience with that.

In Christ,
Billy

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 10:35 AM

Great question Billy. Actually a lot of the Churches in RI are starting to work together now under an organization called “Love RI” where we will be doing social service projects together. SJC is also overseeing West Side arts which just merged with another outstanding organization lead by Andrew Mook called “Love Providence” which has after school programs that we are rolling out for other churches to participate side-by-side together in. At SJC we all feel that it is very important to have an open and supportive posture toward otehr churches, even those we may not agree with on all things, but they are still our brothers and sisters in Christ,

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 10:45 AM

Todd, that’s awesome.

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 05:56 PM

Thanks Billy. All is well. One last comment to you… Church hunting is a lot like dating. Eventually you either tear up the picture (your ideal) or you keep ‘tearing up’ the girl (church). [Paraphrase reworking of an old Howard Hendricks quote] I want to you encourage you to take the plunge and invest in the SJ community; warts and all… that is, our warts. ;)

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 09:29 PM

Dave, I am very interested in SJ….there’s no question about it. If God told me to pick a church today, SJ would be it. I’m not one to rush things and so far it has proved to work out well for me….coming to Christ wasn’t a one day thing and He has proved to be priceless. Find my wife wasn’t a quick process either and she too is priceless!...and beautiful too! :) My kids as well…they too are priceless! The love that I have for my children is probably the closest thing to the love that God has for us.

Evan Whitman

08/30 at 10:31 PM

Awesome Billy. Congrats…

I think that’s the point of this post… God has told you to pick a church today, there is no reason good enough not to. :)

Evan Whitman

09/06 at 12:14 PM

Hey Billy… check out one of the greatest expositors of God’s words on this very topic. Go to spiritempoweredpreaching.com, click on ‘sermons’ and search for Azurdia’s series entitled “Renewing Your Passion For The Church”. Series synopsis:

“Contempt for the Bride of Christ is fast becoming a popular mantra on the part of Christian evangelicals. But it must be asked: How can one profess love for the Savior and simultaneously despise the people for whom He gave His life? In passionate challenge, this series establishes the glorious dignity of the Church and the priority it must occupy in the affections and efforts of all God’s people.”

Evan Whitman

09/06 at 12:19 PM

“He cannot have God for his father who has not the church for his mother.”

Cyprian of Carthage (3rd Century)

Evan Whitman

09/17 at 05:49 PM

Wow, thats a great point Todd. All the while before i had Christ i never stopped believing in God, but i hated the Church. I did not know then that we are His Bride. Blessings

Sacred Journey Church is located in Providence, Rhode Island

Personal Bible study, prayer and community? Huh…

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